Tech Talk: Simplified

Chris: 00:00

Let's dive into this project management thing.

Alice: 00:02

Okay. Yeah.

Chris: 00:02

Specifically, you know that moment when you're looking at a project plan

Alice: 00:06

Right.

Chris: 00:06

And you're kinda stuck trying to decide between agile and waterfall? Yeah. It's like a classic project management dilemma, isn't it?

Alice: 00:13

It is. It is. For sure.

Chris: 00:15

Like, you've got your articles. You're bookmarked up. You probably got some strong opinions flying around the team.

Alice: 00:19

Oh, yeah. Definitely a point of debate. Always comes up.

Chris: 00:21

Yeah. And and nobody wants to be, you know, backing the wrong horse right out of the

Alice: 00:25

gate. Exactly.

Chris: 00:26

So let's do this for this deep dive. Let's break it

Alice: 00:29

down.

Chris: 00:29

Okay. Agile versus waterfall, strengths and weaknesses. Sounds good. We'll unpack what makes a project really well suited for a structured approach. And then, on the flip side, when you really need to have that flexibility.

Alice: 00:43

Yeah. No. That makes sense. And I think a good place to start might be thinking about the history.

Chris: 00:48

Okay.

Alice: 00:48

You know, waterfall, it's been around for a long time. It was the go to for decades. Right. And it really focuses on this meticulous planning, documentation, which, especially with these large scale projects where one little hiccup can turn into a disaster, that was really crucial.

Chris: 01:06

Right. Like, you think about building a massive skyscraper. Yeah. You can't really, like, change your mind about where the fortieth floor goes after you already laid the foundation.

Alice: 01:14

Exactly. Exactly. And that's, I mean, that's a great example of where waterfall really shines. You know, you get something like London's Crossrail project, massive, massive undertaking Huge. Building these new railway lines under London.

Chris: 01:29

Wow.

Alice: 01:30

And they were they relied heavily on waterfall because of that sequential phase based approach, and I think it allowed them to coordinate all of these moving parts and actually stay relatively on track for such a complex project.

Chris: 01:42

So in that case, that meticulous planning of waterfall really paid off.

Alice: 01:46

It did.

Chris: 01:46

But what about so that's a great example. But what about those projects where the end result might need to change a bit along the way? You need to adapt.

Alice: 01:54

Yeah. And that's where things get you know? Yeah. Waterfall's not exactly known for being flexible. You know, a good example of this is Melbourne's MyMyki ticketing system.

Chris: 02:02

K.

Alice: 02:03

They stuck to this really rigid waterfall method. And as the project went on, it got more and more complex, and they just weren't set up to adapt to those changes.

Chris: 02:14

And it became one of those, like, cautionary tales. Right? Like, it went way over budget. It was delayed.

Alice: 02:18

It did. It did. Yeah. And I think the Myki project is a perfect example of, you know, waterfall can offer structure. It can offer predictability.

Alice: 02:24

Sure. But when things come up, when you need to adjust, when the market demands change, it's not always equipped to handle

Chris: 02:34

that. Okay. So waterfall is like sticking to the plan, sticking to the blueprint. Right. But agile

Alice: 02:39

Yeah.

Chris: 02:39

Agile is kinda like navigating by the stars. Right? Like, you're constantly adjusting, taking in new information, new feedback.

Alice: 02:46

Yeah. No. That's a great way to put it. I like that.

Chris: 02:48

Right.

Alice: 02:48

Yeah.

Chris: 02:48

So agile these agile methodologies are really they're made for projects that have to be able to adapt and kind of evolve as they go along.

Alice: 02:56

Exactly. Yeah. And a perfect example of this is think about Google search engine. You know, if they had stuck with, like, a rigid plan from the very beginning

Chris: 03:05

Right.

Alice: 03:05

Who knows what we'd be, you know, looking at when we try to search something today?

Chris: 03:10

I probably wouldn't be using it for everything. That's for sure. Right. So, like, how does that how does that work in a company like Google, this sort of constant evolution, this iterative development?

Alice: 03:19

So they're they're always they're experimenting constantly. They're gathering data from users. Okay. And they take that feedback, and they use it to to improve their algorithms.

Chris: 03:30

Uh-huh.

Alice: 03:30

You know? And it's it's that that constant iteration instead of one big launch

Chris: 03:36

Right.

Alice: 03:36

That's really allowed them to stay ahead.

Chris: 03:38

So, like, they're building the ship while they're sailing it.

Alice: 03:41

Exactly. Exactly.

Chris: 03:42

In a really good way.

Alice: 03:43

Yes. Yes. In a very in a very good way.

Chris: 03:46

And it seems to be working for them.

Alice: 03:47

Yeah. And I think, you know, it's not just about keeping up with technology. It's about keeping customers happy.

Chris: 03:53

Sure.

Alice: 03:53

You look at Amazon. They are constantly gathering feedback. They're tweaking the platform. They're adding things based on what they're hearing from their customers.

Chris: 04:01

It's like they have a crystal ball or something. It's crazy.

Alice: 04:04

Right. But, no, it's just, you know, really that customer centricity

Chris: 04:08

Right.

Alice: 04:08

Which is a huge part of Agile.

Chris: 04:10

Right.

Alice: 04:11

It's it's building that culture of listening and responding to that feedback, and that's that's been huge for them.

Chris: 04:17

So agile sounds it sounds pretty good so far.

Alice: 04:20

Right.

Chris: 04:20

But I'm sure there's two sides to every coin. Sure. What about what are some of the Oh. Maybe not so good things about agile?

Alice: 04:28

Yeah. I mean, like you said, there's always there's always two sides. Yeah. And, you know, Agile's not perfect.

Chris: 04:34

Right.

Alice: 04:35

You know, one of the big criticisms is that if you're not careful with documentation, if you don't have a clear road map

Chris: 04:40

Yeah.

Alice: 04:40

Things can go off the rails pretty quickly.

Chris: 04:43

Right. It's like everyone's playing a different tune in the band.

Alice: 04:45

Exactly. Yeah. It can be a recipe for disaster Yeah. If you're not if you're not careful.

Chris: 04:50

Yeah. So even though it's meant to be flexible Yeah. You still need some kind of structure, some kind of shared understanding to make it work.

Alice: 04:58

Absolutely. Absolutely. You need that collaboration, that communication. And that's I think that's where it can it can get a little tricky. Because if you don't have that, it just becomes kind of this ready, fire, aim.

Chris: 05:10

Yeah.

Alice: 05:10

And that can be that can lead to some pretty costly mistakes.

Chris: 05:14

Right. And I feel like this reminds me of I I read this case study, this cautionary tale about Littel.

Alice: 05:19

Oh, yeah?

Chris: 05:20

A supermarket chain.

Alice: 05:21

Yeah.

Chris: 05:21

And they tried to implement this new system, this SAP system, using Agile.

Alice: 05:27

Okay.

Chris: 05:27

And it just it didn't really work out the way they hoped.

Alice: 05:30

It did not. No.

Chris: 05:31

And it was because they their existing processes were so complex Yeah. That Agile without that really careful forethought, that planning Mhmm. It just it didn't fit, and it ended up costing them a lot of time and money.

Alice: 05:45

Yeah. Yeah. And that's you know?

Chris: 05:46

So it's like, we've got waterfall over here Yeah. All about structure.

Alice: 05:50

Right. And

Chris: 05:50

then we've got agile.

Alice: 05:51

Right.

Chris: 05:52

It's about being adaptable. Yeah. But it seems like we're kind of being forced to pick a side. Yeah. Right?

Chris: 05:57

Like, it's one or the other.

Alice: 05:58

I think I think that's how a lot of people feel at first. They feel stuck.

Chris: 06:02

Yeah.

Alice: 06:02

Like, they have to pledge allegiance to one methodology, but Right. The good news is it doesn't have to be that way.

Chris: 06:08

Okay.

Alice: 06:09

Good. It's not an either. Okay. There's this, you know, growing trend towards what's called hybrid project management.

Chris: 06:16

Okay.

Alice: 06:16

And this is where you take the best parts of Waterfall. Uh-huh. The best parts of Agile. Okay. And you kinda blend them together.

Chris: 06:24

So we're not, like, trying to shove a square peg into a round hole. We're customizing it a little bit.

Alice: 06:29

Exactly. You're tailoring it to what your project actually needs.

Chris: 06:33

I like it. So give me an example. How does this actually work? Like, give me a company. How are they using this hybrid model?

Alice: 06:39

Sure. Yeah. So let's look at Philips.

Chris: 06:41

Right.

Alice: 06:41

They were working on developing this HealthSuite digital platform.

Chris: 06:46

K.

Alice: 06:47

Pretty big undertaking.

Chris: 06:48

Yeah.

Alice: 06:48

And they realized that, you know, a one size fits all approach wasn't gonna work. So they actually used Waterfall for the foundation of the platform Okay. Because they wanted to make sure that all the essential stuff

Chris: 07:00

Right.

Alice: 07:00

Like the regulatory stuff, the security, that that was all, you know, planned out meticulously, documented. Makes sense.

Chris: 07:08

You don't wanna be experimenting on something as important as, you know Yeah. Health care stuff.

Alice: 07:13

Exactly. Exactly. You don't wanna mess around with the core infrastructure. Yeah. But when it came to the software applications that would run on that platform

Chris: 07:22

Okay.

Alice: 07:23

They switched gears. They went agile.

Chris: 07:25

Okay.

Alice: 07:26

Yeah. They wanted to be able to, you know, get feedback from users, be able to iterate quickly.

Chris: 07:31

So it's like, they said, okay. For this part of the project, we're gonna do it this way. Right. And then for this other part, we're gonna do it this way. Yeah.

Chris: 07:37

And were there like, did they see the benefits of that?

Alice: 07:40

They did. They did. Yeah. They reported that it helped them get to market faster. They had a higher quality product.

Alice: 07:47

They were even able to kind of manage the budget a little bit better.

Chris: 07:50

So it's finding that sweet spot between, like you said, planning and adaptability.

Alice: 07:54

It is. It's about having that balance, and I think, you know, more and more companies are starting to realize that

Chris: 08:00

Okay.

Alice: 08:00

That it's not about, like, sticking to one thing religiously. It's about finding the right tool for the job.

Chris: 08:07

And sometimes the right tool is a mix of tools.

Alice: 08:09

Exactly. Exactly.

Chris: 08:10

So for our listener who is maybe struggling with this right now, like, should I go Agile? Should I go Waterfall?

Alice: 08:16

Yeah.

Chris: 08:17

What would you tell them?

Alice: 08:19

I would say, remember, you have options.

Chris: 08:22

Okay.

Alice: 08:22

Don't limit yourself.

Chris: 08:23

That's good advice for a lot of things in life, I think.

Alice: 08:26

Yeah. Right? Think about what your project actually needs. You know, what are the challenges? What are the opportunities?

Chris: 08:33

Right.

Alice: 08:34

Is there a part of it that needs to be really, you know, meticulously planned?

Chris: 08:38

Yeah.

Alice: 08:38

And are there parts where you need to be able to pivot and adapt?

Chris: 08:42

Yeah. It's about finding that balance.

Alice: 08:43

It is.

Chris: 08:44

And maybe that balance is a hybrid approach.

Alice: 08:46

Exactly. Exactly. Because in the end, it doesn't really matter what you call it.

Chris: 08:50

Right.

Alice: 08:50

It's about, you know, how successful your project is.

Chris: 08:53

Getting it done.

Alice: 08:54

Getting it done. Getting it done well.

Chris: 08:55

And I love that we have these different options, that we can customize it to what we need. Me too. So, hopefully, this has been helpful for our listeners out there.

Alice: 09:03

I hope so.

Chris: 09:04

Until next time. Thanks for listening.

Alice: 09:07

Thanks, everyone.